Prehistory
Last two years I have been in constant try and search for a shotgun which would fit my need for pass shooting for ducks and geese. Here I need to mention that I have no room to store all this fancy stuff: decoys, metal boat, etc, so the pass shooting looks like particularly interesting way of waterfowl hunting for me as well as most accessible one. So the goal is to have a shotgun which would take geese down from distances above 40 yds up to 55...60 yds. Three months ago one of local dealers had a good special on Beretta A400 Xtreme Unico Camo5 12ga 30" chamber 3.5". To my luck it looks like this gun fits me better then whatever I've been shooting two previous years. And it fits me very well and shoots straight. So it is already a big deal. And last November I've already had couple of successful huntings for snows and canada geese using the included "M" choke. Yet I missed couple of geese at 40..50 yds and felt like my result could be better if using a good aftermarket choke.After some googling and checking canadian market I bought:
Carlson Cremator TST Long Range .708 non-ported choke in Optima HP, which is the latest and newest Beretta choke system. The Optima HP looks like longer choke than let's say Browning Invector Plus. So it says me that inside Optima HP the transition to the constricted end must be smoother and delivering better patterns. To my surprise the Cremator reads right on its side the following: "Do not shoot steel shot larger than #2". Hmm, ok. Btw, I've heard from many hunters that #2 shot is all I need for geese. They say that the #BB doesn't seem to give much distance advantage and its lesser number of pellets, i.e. 81 pellets for #BB vs 141 for #2 in 1-1/8oz load can create significant gaps when the target is more than 40 yds far away. Well, those guys may have reason. Yet I felt like it would be nice to have a choke which would shoot the #BB as well. I continued my research but this time I've also decided to pay special attention to the size of constriction. Eventually I came up to Jebs website. These guys say they have won Still Target World Championships: "JEBS Chokes Tubes held the current world record in 2016 with a score of 23, and Cody Waters blew that record away shooting a 35 to set the new world record". As you can see, things start getting interesting. But please note, I'm not affiliated to these people in any way. I love hunting and all I want is to have my shotgun delivering good pattern and enough velocity to take those honkers down and bring good healthy meat to my family table. Ok, so I want to order one or two of those chokes. But before I do, I make a call to Jebs. I make note that all of their choke tubes have smaller constriction than everything else. There are only terror choke tubes which seem to go similar way, but I don't see those making anything for Optima HP. The web page has the following information:
Choke Tube Comparisons for JEBS Restrictions Versus Standard Factory Choke Sizes:
- .675 - Similar To A EXTRA FULL
- .680 - Similar To A FULL
- .685 - Similar To A MODIFIED
- .690 - Similar To A LIGHT MODIFIED
- .695 - Similar To A IMPROVED
The guy on the other end says that .690 is good for #BB shot, the .685 is for #2, .680 is for #4 and so on. Couple of days later I decide to get a .690 (#BB) and .685 (#2).
Testing it
Do I need to tell how impatient I was when I received my order. :)) But the weather wasn't good: -24 degrees of Celsius (-11.2°F) - yeah my friend, this is Canada. And the gun powder will under perform at such temperatures. Finally, this weekend it was +2C (35.6°F) so I had a chance to pattern all of the above mentioned chokes for first time.All the pattern tests are done at 40 yds (measured by laser rangefinder), one shot per target, the target size is 30". The inner dark circle is 6" and I was carefully aiming it, standing tall and shooting off hands. So here you should understand that I was shooting at the target which was pre drawn. It was not like sometime people do by shooting at empty list of paper then estimating the center of impact, then drawing circles around it, etc. My aiming technique is somewhat like this.
Here is the AVERAGE PELLET COUNT FOR SHOTSHELLS information for reference, googled then taken from this resource.
All the ammo are non-toxic steel shots.
Day One. 20-January 2018
Carlson Cremator TST LR .708
here is the pattern picture and the results and summary will go below (click to see larger picture)Left part of picture: shot is "Remington 12ga 3" 1400fps 1-1/4oz #4". The shot has approx 240 pellets. It resulted in 137 hits which is 57% only. 10 pellets are in the 6" center circle.
Right part of picture: shot is "Score 12ga 3" 1550fps load 1-1/8oz #2". It is approx 141 pellets. The result is somewhat better 91 hits which is about 65% . 6 pellets are in the 6" center circle. So the canadian made budget ammo "Score" (I paid $14.99 CAD for 25 steel shots/box ) seem to perform better. Or Cremator handles bigger #2 shot better? Not too bad, but I wish this choke tube performed better. Its size of constriction (.708) is equivalent of a factory standard "Modified" or rather "Improved Modified" choke tube which is commonly considered as the most constricted and last choke on the scale from "Cyl" to "Full" which can shoot steel shot. For example, you can not shoot steel shots using factory "Full" choke.
Jebs High Voltage .690
Shot: Score 12ga 3" 1550fps load 1-1/8oz #2 (approx 141 pellets)Result: 108 hits which is 77% - good! The center 6" circle has 9 hits .
Result: 77 hits which is 85% - Excellent! The center 6" circle has 11 hits.
Jebs High Voltage .685
This is the tightest choke tube which I have ever had for steel shots. I doubt if I need anything smaller than this. And the biggest size it can shoot is #2. So the following test will be for #2 and #4 shots.
Result: 112 hits which is 79% - two percents better than .690 choke for same shot. The center circle has 11 hits. Very good.
Shot: Kent 12ga 3" 1560fps 1-1/8oz #4 (approx 216 pellets)
Result: 163 hits which is 75% - good. The 6" center has 15 (!) hits.
So far, the most universal budget ammo is "Score 12ga 3" 1550fps load 1-1/8oz #2".
The Jebs High Voltage .690 looks like universal and good performer.
That is it for now. Unfortunately I didn't have enough time to shoot and pattern more shot sizes and brands. This all was done in maybe 60..70 min before sunset. So, to be tested ##1,3 and brands "Challenger" - yet another canadian budget shotgun ammo popular brand and maybe more sizes in Kent and Remington ammo using same three choke tubes.
Please feel free to leave your comments and thoughts.
To avoid spam the comments get moderated before appearing in my blog, so give me some time to read and approve your comments.
The Jebs High Voltage .690 looks like universal and good performer.
That is it for now. Unfortunately I didn't have enough time to shoot and pattern more shot sizes and brands. This all was done in maybe 60..70 min before sunset. So, to be tested ##1,3 and brands "Challenger" - yet another canadian budget shotgun ammo popular brand and maybe more sizes in Kent and Remington ammo using same three choke tubes.
Please feel free to leave your comments and thoughts.
To avoid spam the comments get moderated before appearing in my blog, so give me some time to read and approve your comments.
Day Two. 24-January 2018. More shots #1, #3 tested among the rest.
I've adjusted the comb drop for my A400. It used to be 55DX, now it is 60DX. I'm 6' tall, long neck. Now I feel like it is easier to mount the gun.
I've done short POI test using Estate #7.5 1-1/8 sporting target lead shot by shooting at 3" circles drawn on a cardboard. The distance was 12yds . The POI seem to be OK:
I've done short POI test using Estate #7.5 1-1/8 sporting target lead shot by shooting at 3" circles drawn on a cardboard. The distance was 12yds . The POI seem to be OK:
To test the pattern this time I've cut two wooden poles, tied them together in X-style to use as a bipod. This trick has stabilized aiming and shooting. I was expecting to have better results than before. Let's see how did it work.
Jebs High Voltage .685
Shot: Remington 3" 1400fps 1-1/4oz #4 (~240 pellets)
Result: 145 hits which is 60%
- it might be better... The 6" center has 12 hits. The pattern is OK
though. Small gaps here and there, but pellets cover whole area quite a
bit.
Shot: Kent Fast Steel 3" 1560fps 1-1/8oz #3 (~178 pellets)
Result: 112 hits which is 63%. The 6" center has 11 hits
Result: 112 hits which is 63%. The 6" center has 11 hits
Shot: Kent Fast Steel 3" 1425fps 1-1/4oz #2 (~156 pellets)
Result: 112 hits which is 72%. The 6" center has 6 hits. I felt like I screwed up this test slightly. As you can see most of pellets went up. Yet the hit percentage is better than for two previous tests.
Result: 112 hits which is 72%. The 6" center has 6 hits. I felt like I screwed up this test slightly. As you can see most of pellets went up. Yet the hit percentage is better than for two previous tests.
Jebs High Voltage .690
Shot: Kent Fast Steel 3" 1560fps 1-1/8oz #1 (~116 pellets)Result: 76 hits which is 66%. The 6" center has 10 hits.
Shot: Kent Fast Steel 3" 1425fps 1-1/4oz #2 (~156 pellets)
Result: 124 hits which is 79%. The 6" center has 5 hits.
Result: 124 hits which is 79%. The 6" center has 5 hits.
Shot: Winchester SuperX 3" 1550fps 1-1/8oz #BB (~81 pellets)
Result: 54 hits which is 67%. The 6" center has 4 hits.
This was worst shotgun ammo I've ever used. Well, I saw it even worse, the same brand in #3 is much worse that this one since it has pellets which are not even uniform.
It is possible to observe the drop in percentage for some of shots which were used during previous test session. The bipod hasn't help to improve the results. I don't know.., I think it is too early to draw conclusion here. Apparently, the right way to do it is to shoot at least x3 times same shot at same target then count, divide by 3, then calculate... This to be tested in near future.
Trulock choke tubes.
(Added on April-28 2018)I've bought four Trulock tubes:
Precision hunter IC .723"
Precision hunter Mod .713"
Precision hunter Turkey .668"
Super Waterfowl Full #2 .693"
Beretta Optima HP 12 Ga bore is marked 18.6mm which is .732". Apparently Trulock company assumes it is .733". So IC constriction is -.010", Mod -.020", Full #2 (X-Full) is -.040 -- which results .723, .713 and .693. Turkey is usually anything above -.045 and more, in our case it is -.065 constriction.
Below you will see some test results, which are rather surprising, I would say, in a good way...
I used shot Challenger steel 3" #2 1-1/8oz. Pellet count: 141 Avg price is $15 CAD per 25 shells.
Like before, the distance was 40yds, circle diameter is 30". I was shooting standing tall and off hands, no pods.
Precision hunter IC .723" (price $55 CAD)
85 hits which is 60%. This is good result for IC choke. A good candidate for small ducks hunting (teals, etc) for ranges under 40 yds.
Precision hunter Mod .713"
116 hits which is 82% . WOW!
As you can see, this unexpensive Mod choke ($55 CAD) gives the results that some pricey and more constricted competitors can not always do (see my Jebs test results above). I'm very happy that this choke works so well together with budget ammo. So this is going to be my "go to" setup for bigger ducks and geese. The pattern distribution is maybe not perfect but very good. Another important conclusion is that there is no need to have more constriction in order to have more hits. Too much of constriction can produce erratic patterns. And it lengthens the shot string as well, which is not good. ... And I yet have to test the penetration at 40yds some day to tell the final word if there is any benefit at all in having more than .020" constriction for pass shooting and waterfowl hunting at all. Another possible negative side of too tight constriction is higher stress on the choke walls. Let me tell it to you, having run a box of 3.5" #2 steel ammo through Jebs High Voltage .690 one pass shooting day I've discovered that Jebs choke got lightly swollen. It was not so bad, just taking slightly more effort to screw it out. I didn't want to take chance developing the problem further. To replace the Beretta A400 Steelium barrel can cost you fortune. Fortunately Jebs strives to deliver good customer support. So I sent that .690 choke back and asked to replace it with .695 - their widest choke and in Black Nitride which is hopefully made of more stress resistant metal - they advertise it is 82 on the Rockwell Chart. I've received the replacement in one week - good job by Jebs! Beretta Optima HP choke system has very long chokes with thin walls which delivers smoother transition to the narrower end of tube. This is good for pattern but makes Optima HP chokes swelling prone. So less constriction transforms to less stress, shorter shot string, less wad and shot friction and maybe higher velocity?
Now, here are test results for Super Waterfowl Full #2 .693" which is more than double of the price of "Precison Hunter". Does it perform so much better? Not at all. See:
Shot: Kent 3" #2 1-1/8oz
101 hits which is 72% (see the blue color markings only). And the pattern is slightly erratic.
Same tube Super Waterfowl Full #2 .693"
Shot: Kent 3" #1 1-1/8oz80 hits = 69% - which is even worse.
And turkey choke: Precision hunter Turkey .668". The good news about it that I bough this choke at 50% discount, which is $27.5 CAD. It is my 1st turkey choke, so there is nothing to compare it against. The weird thing about it that this choke shoots lower. Even though I aim my shotgun as usual. The shot was taken from kneeling position.
Same 40yds distance, 30" circle - yes I know, I should test it against 10" circle, but I had only those card boards with 30" circles.
Shot: Winchester Long Beard XR 3.5" 1200fps 2oz #5 (pellet count ~340) - price $30 CAD per 10 shots. Also, the lead shot is copper plated and mixed up with polymer buffer grains to avoid pellet
deformation while transitioning through tight constrictions. There is
also some fancy container technology called Shot-Lok. This is expensive ammo, but look at the result, the pattern density!
306 hits = 90% at 40yds. On the box Winchester says it is twice the pellets in 10" circle out to 60 yds. Will it kill turkey?.. Oh, yeah.
Same choke but unexpensive shot Federal Turkey Thugs 3" 1210fps 1-7/8oz #5 . Price $11 CAD per 10 shots.
But here I did it wrong, I shot it standing tall off hands. We should not shoot turkey this way using turkey choke, right?
235 hits out of 319 pellets which is 74%. As you can see, the density is not too bad. Such a pattern would kill turkey too. This ammo does the job too but I wouldn't shoot a turkey beyond 45 yds with it. Well, in general the good idea is to work your turkey under 40yds for clean ethical shot.
Looking at these two last test results I think I should aim my shotgun to the center of target , not like I do figure "8" to shoot using waterfowl chokes. I.e. I need to cover turkey skull with front bead.
Thanks for reading.
The Jebs chokes seem to be pretty impressive.
ОтветитьУдалитьLooks like Jebs blows away the competition.
ОтветитьУдалитьGreat write up! I too am patterning in Optima HP for my Beretta 1301. So far Kicks and soon Patternmaster Code Black. I am also north of the border; Ontario. I'd enjoy chatting further about our Beretta beauties and their patterning ways!
ОтветитьУдалитьThanks buddy. I've had a Patternmaster for SX3. It is not bad. But at the end I've sold both the shotgun and choke. I do not like the backbored shotgun barrels. While they may improve pattern, which is btw not always the case, they seem to decrease the velocity also. This can be negligible when shooting over decoys, but not for the pass shooting where you want to squeeze out each last bit of energy.
УдалитьAny chance that you've tried any BB loads through the Super Waterfowl Full #2?
ОтветитьУдалитьI know the website says B - smaller but Trulock replied to my email and said that the Full #2 is actually safe for steel size BB - smaller.
I'm trying to decide between the Super Waterfowl options and the Precision Hunter Improved Modified for patterning Geese loads. May end up getting both!
I'd love to get a Jebs, Wad Wizard Supreme and Terror (no Optima HP unfortunately but Invector Plus for my Browning), Rhino, PM Anaconda and a handful of others if money was no object.
Any updates that you've found would be greatly appreciated!
Cheers
Hi buddy,
УдалитьI didn't try BB through SW F#2 because it has already got swollen of shooting #1 and 2 loads. I've sent it back to Trulock and asked them to send me three Precision Hunter as a replacement. Yeah, the SW costs 3x times more than a PH. So Trulock guys were kind enough to send me three PH tubes.
I've also tried Jebs and got it swollen soon enough too. I was shooting #3,2,BB through it. Jebs sent me a replacement, which I sold promptly... I have another Jebs High Voltage Black Nitride .695 for Optima HP - brand new packaged, never shot. I can sell it to you if you wish...
And this negative experience was not a problem of Trulock or Jebs choke quality. It is the problem of Optima HP engineering design. I've been learning the Resistance of Materials while graduating. This choke being longer than usual has long thin walls which makes it prone to swelling.
After I saw a Russian dude dropping high flying snows using his Baikal mp-153 + IC choke tube and 3" #2 Challenger steel shots, I decided to do some velocity/penetration testing while having that Trulock SW F#2. Imagine, the #2 shot loses 17%..20% of velocity when goes through the SW F#2 in comparison to Precision Hunter M/Mod. Too much of constriction yields more friction which stealing energy and velocity. Also your pattern becomes very erratic, unconsistent and unstable, flyers, etc. This is very complicated science. May final conclusion:
for steel shot you do not need anything more than M tube. IM is the maximum you need. IC is good to shoot over decoys. For Optima HP barrels I avoid shooting 3.5" steel shots -- too much stress on barrell, choke and action for very little advantage, often no advantage. See early videos and comments of Warren Hicks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8hMNhL6GIiwxAWCpoBvIxQ - the guy uses Trulock Skeet (it is even less constriction that IC) and 2-3/4 shots... See his results :)
Приветствую, уважаемый Поручик! Приятно видеть, что и за океаном есть владельцы MP153, хотя раньше я думал, что это из области фантастики)))
ОтветитьУдалитьЯ сам являюсь владельцем мр153, правда, с патронником 76мм. Купил его ещё в далёком 2012 году, но в силу различных причин, оно лежало без дела, ни разу не отстреляное, и лишь в марте этого года удалось попасть с ним на охоту на перелётную птицу в Калмыкию. Стрелял дробью #3 и #1, если не ошибаюсь, это у вас как раз и есть #2 и #bb, чок IM lead 0,75. Результат крайне неутешительный. Последующие отстрелы уже дома показали крайне отвратительные показатели по осыпи и резкости боя с родными дульными сужениями. Много чего пересмотрел и перечитал, много рекламы Gemini, Kicks, PM. Но уж больно цены кусаются - $80-$100 с пересылкой. В результате остановился на чоке для стальной дроби F steel 0,4 мм за $10. Осыпь практически повторяет фото с Jebs High Voltage .685, только больше смещение вниз.
ОтветитьУдалитьМурок здесь полно. ) Я свою продал ...ну, потому что не люблю чтоб ружье простаивало. Как минимум у четверых моих приятелей эти ружья есть. У двоих 153-е, и у двоих других 155-е. Все довольны. Очевидно сюда такие ружья поставлялись после тщательного контроля качества, потому что ни разу не слыхал здесь про жалобы, какие можно прочесть в рунете в отношении мурок.
УдалитьИ да, всех устраивают чоки какие идут сразу в комплекте с этим ружьями. Чоки удлиненные и очень неплохого качества кстати. Уж не знаю как с этим вопросом в России. Но здесь например чоки TruChoke фирмы Trulock - они этого формата и есть на мурке, можно купить за 60 канадских за чок. Не особенно дорого.
УдалитьНасчёт качества рядовых мр-ок для внутреннего рынка.... Недавно смотрел один сравнительный обзор ружей бееас авто и мр155. Смотрите, на затыльнике бекас авто штамповка- какая то птица, чтобы знали- стрелять по птице. А на затыльнике мр155- надпись Baikal, вероятно, чтобы знали, что стрелять надо по заводу Байкал....
ОтветитьУдалитьНадо думать, экспортное исполнение на высоте... Говорят, более менее по качеству идут мр155 русич, и то с 2019 года, а мр155 профи позиционируети уже как штучное оружие. Родные дульные сужения идут внутренние, длиной 38 мм и отвратительного качества по обработке и показателям.
ОтветитьУдалитьЕсли правильно помню, мр153 к вам шли как ремингтон 453 спартан. А мр 155 как обозвали?
ОтветитьУдалитьSpartan - это было давно. Уже давно нету того контракта. Потом до эмбарго шли просто Baikal mp-153 и mp-155 и прочие. У меня еще есть иж-27ем, тоже здесь купил новое в прошлом году из остатков былого завоза, и обзывается он mp-27em :) Всю эту весну бью индюков из этой вертикалки. Чуть удлинил приклад, ружье стало прикладистое и бьет супер точно - в индюшиной охоте с XXF чоком это важно.
Удалить60 долларов терпимо, но подозреваю, что пересылка будет гораздо дороже...
ОтветитьУдалитьна такую малую штуковину в мягком конверте с пузырьками пересылка в Россию будет порядка $15...20.
УдалитьА иж-54 тоже там покупали?
ОтветитьУдалитьда. С аукциона онлайн. 1963г. выпуска. Их сюда еще СССР поставлял. Знакомые умудряются тут найти и МЦ-шки.
УдалитьНе подскажите сайт, где можно посмотреть и возможно заказать чок на мр153? XXF это только для индюка или гуся и зайца на дальние расстояния?
ОтветитьУдалитья не знаю кто шлет на Россию. Попробуйте погуглить "buy Trulock Truchoke"
УдалитьTruchoke - это как раз формат на русские ружья от фирмы Trulock. Также есть и на ebay - смотрите шлют ли в Россию.
XXF - только на индюка. Он дает узкую струю дроби, чтобы поразить небольшую голову индюка. С рук легко промахнуться этим чоком. Индюков нельзя стрелять кроме как в голову, потому такой чок. На гуся я бы не брал более чем IM, да и на зайца тоже. Поищите на рынках у дедуль дробь отлитую из колесных грузиков-балансиров -- она тверже обычного свинца, значит и осыпь должна быть получше. Я всегда пристреливаю чок и патрон по бумаге прежде чем идти с этим на охоту. Удачи.
Взаимно!
ОтветитьУдалить